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Caveat For Folks Running WiRNS on a NON-24x7 Computer...

 
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TakeTheActive
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Joined: 11 Mar 2004
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Location: Central Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Caveat For Folks Running WiRNS on a NON-24x7 Computer... Reply with quote

An important point that hasn't been mentioned recently is the algorithm the ReplayTV uses for deciding what DAYS of data it will retrieve during a Net Connect. This, in my case, is critical when deciding whether to leave the computer running WiRNS on 24x7 or not.

Disclaimer: My memory is not EXACT on this, but the general idea presented holds true. Someone with a better memory will have to provide the EXACT, i.e. individual days being updated, details.

When a ReplayTV with a completely empty Guide Data Net Connects, it retrieves the full 12 days of data. But, subsequent connections use an algorithm, for example, only retrieve days 1, 2, 4, 8, 11 (IIRC, the EXACT algorithm can be found in Todd's Twiki from 2003, the LINK to which can be found on the WiRNS site). If you connect daily, this will be transparent. But, if you connect only, for example again, once every 3, or 5, or 6, or 7, or 9, or 10 days, all the Guide Data that has changed will not be retrieved.

What does this mean? Well, let's say the first time you Net Connect, your Guide Data is completely empty - the algorithm will download a full 12 days worth of data. If you don't connect again for 7 days and any of the data for days 1-6 changes, you won't have the changes. When you do connect on day 7, you won't download another full 12 days of data - the algorithm will only download days 1, 2, 4, 8, and 11, which are days 8, 9, 11 of the initial download plus new days 15 and 18.

IME, this usually just affects Show Descriptions. For example, the data for the late night talk shows is usually generic, i.e. doesn't list the guests, until a few days before the show date. I've also seen generic data on some CBS, NBC, ABC prime time repeats especially for Saturdays. Sometimes it affects shows, i.e. TBD will be updated to a real show; sometimes it affect times, i.e. two 30 minute back-to-back episodes of one show may be updated to one 60 minute time block, or vice versa.

Just something for the newcomers to WiRNS to be aware of when deciding how often to update their Guide Data. idea!
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hdonzis
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Caveat For Folks Running WiRNS on a NON-24x7 Computer... Reply with quote

TakeTheActive wrote:
What does this mean? Well, let's say the first time you Net Connect, your Guide Data is completely empty - the algorithm will download a full 12 days worth of data. If you don't connect again for 7 days and any of the data for days 1-6 changes, you won't have the changes. When you do connect on day 7, you won't download another full 12 days of data - the algorithm will only download days 1, 2, 4, 8, and 11, which are days 8, 9, 11 of the initial download plus new days 15 and 18.


The only thing I want to point out is that the algorithm is applied for days which contain guide data, but empty guide is always filled. So, if you don't connect again for 7 days, then you'd have 7 days of empty guide data. In that case, the connect will download days 0, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 because days 5 - 11 are now empty...

TakeTheActive wrote:
IME, this usually just affects Show Descriptions. For example, the data for the late night talk shows is usually generic, i.e. doesn't list the guests, until a few days before the show date. I've also seen generic data on some CBS, NBC, ABC prime time repeats especially for Saturdays. Sometimes it affects shows, i.e. TBD will be updated to a real show; sometimes it affect times, i.e. two 30 minute back-to-back episodes of one show may be updated to one 60 minute time block, or vice versa.


That's why the algorithm always updates the closest days, the ones either recording or getting ready to record in the near future. It tries to ensure that the show information is correct when the shows actually record...

However, if you haven't net connected for awhile, then you should certainly net connect as soon as possible to get the updated guide before your next recordings...

I think I see TTA's point, though, that if you don't connect for 7 days, there might have already been missing information in your guide data, like that maybe days 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 didn't get updated with the latest information, so they still have some kind of generic information. The algorithm works well if you update daily, that even if you can't connect for awhile that all the information will be filled in. If you repeat that algorithm each day, you can see that it fills in all the information such that you always have a week's worth of "good" guide data. But, if you were to only connect once every 7 days, then you're probably going to end up with a bunch of generic information. As you can see, since after a 7 days absence it will download days 0, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11, then day 3, for example, will have "stale" information from a week ago when it might not have been known. And, more than likely, days 7 - 11 will have some kind of generic information which will need to be updated. So, you can see that by skipping days connecting you can end up with days that have populated with guide information, but aren't up to date. So, again, I would recommend that you connect as soon as possible before recording that day...

Henry
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truckie36
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed that a lot of the channels that I record regularly do not have the correct show end times until the day of the broadcast. My guide data gets updated at 12:15 and net connects start at 13:15. I'm not sure when the earliest that you can get the most accurate guide data each day is, but 12:15 seems to work most of the time. (all times mentioned are EST)
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rmeden
Replay elitist
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 375

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truckie36 wrote:
I have noticed that a lot of the channels that I record regularly do not have the correct show end times until the day of the broadcast. My guide data gets updated at 12:15 and net connects start at 13:15. I'm not sure when the earliest that you can get the most accurate guide data each day is, but 12:15 seems to work most of the time. (all times mentioned are EST)


Please try and avoid picking an "even" time... randomize it. If you can't use http://schedulesdirect.org/getack at least pick a random minute, not 00,1x,5x. I often just look at the seconds and use that minute.

It would be interesting for you to look at http://zap2it.com and see when they show episode information. The SD info should lag by no more than a day.
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Mark_K
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Joined: 21 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Caveat For Folks Running WiRNS on a NON-24x7 Computer... Reply with quote

TakeTheActive wrote:
When a ReplayTV with a completely empty Guide Data Net Connects, it retrieves the full 12 days of data. But, subsequent connections use an algorithm, for example, only retrieve days 1, 2, 4, 8, 11 (IIRC, the EXACT algorithm can be found in Todd's Twiki from 2003, the LINK to which can be found on the WiRNS site). If you connect daily, this will be transparent. But, if you connect only, for example again, once every 3, or 5, or 6, or 7, or 9, or 10 days, all the Guide Data that has changed will not be retrieved.


Does anyone know where I can find the definitive source for how Replays retrieve days? I've looked through Todd's Twiki on WiRNS and didn't see it.

Thanks!
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