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TIVO Report

 
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brobin111
Replay user
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Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 94
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: TIVO Report Reply with quote

It's been about a year since my last RTV was removed and I thought I'd share my experience using Tivo as a replacement. While I, like many others here, have never cared for Tivo for a variety of reasons, they have made substantial changes that warrant a fresh look.

Here are the top 10 benefits I've found:

1. I really do enjoy watching shows more with the full HD experience.
2. RF Remote allows the Tivo to remain out of sight.
3. Cablecard (free from cable provider) enables 4 - 6 tuners depending on Tivo model. NO STB required and no fee for cable company equipent.
4. Just added this month - Commercial Skip! Almost like our beloved Commercial Advance but requires a single button press on remote at each break. The trade off is that it works flawlessly. It is, however, currently only available on the 20 most popular networks and only on shows from 4:30pm to 12:30am. This feature was first offered on the new Bolt when it was released 9/15 and the feature was added via firmware update to the Roamios in 3/16.
5. 30 second skip/7 second replay for when the above isn't available.
6. "Roku-like" functions in that streaming services including Amazon Prime, Plex, Netflix, Hule, et al., are available and searchable.
7. Tivo Mini's for watching in other rooms (I have 8 in the house). Tivo Mini's connect to the Tivo via ethernet or MOCA using existing coax and offer full functionality. Simultaneous use is limited by number of available tuners.
8. Excellent smartphone/PC apps for managing shows from anywhere AND streaming shows to phone, tablet or PC.
9. "Wish List" entries for future shows that aren't yet in the guide.
10. Excellent US based customer support and ongoing product development.

The current models offered are the Roamio series and the new Bolt. The Roamio has 4 tuners and can receive either OTA or Cable ($99!). The Roamio Plus (what I have) and the Roamio Pro (bigger HD) have 6 tuners but no OTA - cable card only. The Bolt is currently 4 tuners OTA/cable. Except for the base Roamio, the others have built in MOCA adapters. I think the base Roamio is being phased out in favor of the new Bolt.

Tivo does not force feed shows (unless you want them to) so you have full control. The GUI is not so different from RTV so it's an easy transition. Of course after so many tears of doing things one way it can take awhile to adjust but it's a short learning curve.

There is no Poopli type of service however, in the rare instances where we've missed a recording we've been able to watch the missing show for free via Xfinity VOD , also accessed through the Tivo.

So, if you're tired of imaging IDE drives and soldering caps in power supplies it might be worth a look. I was pleasantly surprised and am well satisfied with the investment in the new equipment.
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The Robman
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Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been considering what other options are out there, for when I make the digital switch, so thanks for this report.

I know you said there's no Poopli, but is there any mechanism whereby you can offload shows to a computer?
_________________
Later, Rob
http://www.hifi-remote.com
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brobin111
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Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 94
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's a supported function. Here's a link on exactly how it's done:
https://www.tivo.com/support/how-to/transfer-recordings-your-pc
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sbwinter2
Replay junkie
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that Tivo had limits on what could be recorded or downloaded based on DRM received through their guides, for example, pay channels cannot be recorded. Have you had any issues with recording or downloading?

I also have had an issue with the limited buffer. That is one feature I use all of the time. Instead of creating a recording with the RTV in my living room, I set it to the channel of something I want to watch later or am already watching and cannot finish. Then when I come back later, I can easily move back in time for hours to go back to the program. Aren't Tivo's still limited to 30 minutes? That never made sense to me. Is that still the case?
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mschmitt
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbwinter2 wrote:
I also have had an issue with the limited buffer. That is one feature I use all of the time. Instead of creating a recording with the RTV in my living room, I set it to the channel of something I want to watch later or am already watching and cannot finish. Then when I come back later, I can easily move back in time for hours to go back to the program. Aren't Tivo's still limited to 30 minutes? That never made sense to me. Is that still the case?

The manual says that, unlike the ReplayTV, you can save a recording from a show that you're already watching. That would mitigate the 30 minute buffer somewhat.

The showstopper for me is that you lose access to the cable provider's On Demand. That's especially important without Poopli as a backup for when you miss recording a broadcast show.

So it looks like I'll be giving up my RTV for the cable company DVR.
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sbwinter2
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
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Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I follow. I still have complete access to On Demand with the RTV, but I also have two cable boxes set up in rooms where I want to record and watch at the same time (like having two tuners) - one for the RTV and one for watching. I can access OnDemand directly though the RTV (and have done manually recording from there), but anytime you control the cable box that is hooked up with a RTV, there is a delay in operation (press the cable remote menu button, it takes a few seconds to go there). Definitely more seamless with the cable DVR.

Thanks for the info on recording the program in TIVO. Thing is, I go back several hours, more than one show.
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barmar
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use my RTV frequently with Comcast On Demand. This way I can watch the program while the cable box is busy supplying a regular program to the RTV. And also it means I'm not subject to the infamous "FF/REW is not available during this program".

I use "Select Input" to switch to the Line In for the cable box, use the cable box's remote to find the VOD program, start an immediate manual recording of the appropriate length, and then start playing the VOD program.
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cap_ncrunch
Almost hooked


Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Tivo Series 3 "Not Supported" Reply with quote

I acquired a Tivo Series 3 from discards and went through the process of reconfiguring it for OTA instead of Cablecard. I kept getting messages that the subscription has expired and certain features won't be activated until I subscribed. So, I went to the web address shown and tried to subscribe, only to find out that my machine is not supported. angry

I really like my Panasonic Showstoppers. I have WiRNS installed on one computer and it updates the program guides daily. I use the Dish networks schedule for main channel programming and my Showstoppers automatically change the channel on a Digital Stream converter connected to one input for those channels. I use the Comcast schedule for several sub-channels and a second converter box connected to a second input for them. In both cases, the channel list was edited in Schedules Direct to only include channels that I actually receive. The second converter box must be manually set to the desired sub-channel prior to recording time.

The nice features of the Tivo Series 3 are 2 built in tuners and HD recording capability. So, I was wondering if anyone had put together a software package similar to WiRNS to support the Tivo Series 3. I recognize that there may be legal problems standing in the way of such a project. However, I understand that Tivo is Linux based and some programmers have reverse engineered at least part of the code, so the knowledge should exist. If legal problems aren't an issue, I think the Series 3 would be a good candidate for migration, to obtain the above features not available in our Replays. There should be an abundance of Series 3 machines for sale cheap on ebay! I am reluctant to buy a Series 3 with Lifetime for fear that Tivo will drop support anyway. Is there anyone who can point me to Series 3 WiRNS type support? Even if I don't get a program guide, it would be nice to turn off the messages and turn on features available (including recording) on an activated machine.
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rmeden
Replay elitist
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you ask on the Tivo forums at AVSforum.com.

My guess is you should just pay Tivo month to month fee... at least until Rovi decides to dro pthe Tivo service.

Even when ReplayTV was around, WiRNS was not used to avoid paying subscriber fees to ReplayTV.
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cap_ncrunch
Almost hooked


Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Tivo Series 3 "Not Supported" Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, rmeden! Tivo won't let me pay the subscription fees because it deems the machine "unsupported".

There is a legal point here. You say that WiRNS was not used to avoid paying subscriber fees to ReplayTV. Once ReplayTV discontinued the fees, I assume WiRNs was offered to owners of all machines, as a substitute program guide service. We assume ReplayTV had no reason to take legal action because it wasn't losing money.

Now, comes along Tivo. They won't provide a subscription for Series 3 machines but are still in the business of providing a paid subscription service for more current models in their product lineup. I am sure that they have a well funded legal department and/or funds to retain private attorneys. The question is whether they have a legal right to prevent others from providing a bare bones activation or full blown program guide service for a machine that they no longer support. The law has generally favored competition. When Kodak only sold film bundled with the processing service, competitors in the processing business successfully forced Kodak to sell the film and processing separately. Even if Tivo has no right to prevent others from activating the unsupported machines, I suspect that they will take the "others" to court. I doubt if anyone interested in supporting the machines has the financial resources to fight them.

There are a number of products which are sold at cost or a loss in order to generate sales of support products at a significant profit. Printers are marketed that way with the profits generated from ink cartridge sales funding losses on the initial printer sales. The printer companies fought the ink cartridge refilling business. I am not sure if they went to court, but they diverted empty cartridges from the refilling business. When video games had plug in cartridges, the manufacturers counted on cartridge sales. Nintendo even went as far as to put hardware in its machines to reject non-Nintendo cartridges. At least one company reverse engineered the hardware and sold cartridges for that generation of the Nintendo machines. Tivo may be using a similar business model, depending on subscription fees.
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rmeden
Replay elitist
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schedules Direct is only licensed to provide data to non-commercial products. Even a discontinued Tivo is still a commercial product. An exception was granted for ReplayTV because they were basically out of business. I don't see that happening with Tivo yet.

I'm really surprised Tivo won't take your money and provide guide service.. but that's between you and Tivo. Maybe the folks at AVSforum.com can help. Personally, I don't see how anyone here can.

In addition, ReplayTV (and presumably Tivo) used encrypted keys for activation codes and setting the clock. DNNA released those keys to the community. Tivo has not. Circumventing those codes would probably be a violation of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)'s anti-circumvention clause. It sucks... blame your congress critter.

Robert
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